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Any update on Kviku?

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46 comments

  • Randall Inen

    Very good question...i 20% in kviku...i want my money back..

    1
  • René Etienne Thiel

    Kviku (40 million € exposure) and Dozarplati (5.4 million € exposure) and 0% recovered...

    All my funds (98%) are in recovery, such a shame when you remember the good notes they all had on mintos.

    4
  • Lucja (Mintos)
    Community moderator

    Dear Investors,

    Thank you for your comments. When it comes to Kviku, due to the lending company's lack of cooperation, it wasn't possible to reach an agreement. We have engaged local consultants to enforce the agreements. Please follow our updates on recoveries: https://www.mintos.com/en/funds-in-recovery-updates/. We will post there more information when possible.

    -3
  • Bruno

    These updates are useless. What are exactly the local consultants doing? When can we expect to recover our money? 

    3
  • Stanley

    Bruno What exactly are you expecting them to say? Russia has become essentially a lawless country in regard to the rights of international companies. If Kviku doesn't cooperate it will be difficult to get any funds back in the mid-term future.

    1
  • Bruno

    Stanley, I expect them to say the truth. I believe they can say more than "we've engaged local consultants" or "we can't disclaim what we are doing in order to protector investors".

    1
  • Jakub Tichoň

    Then they could pluck up the courage to say that the money is already lost.

    2
  • ARTĚM AJRAPETOV

    Basically what Stanley said, Kviku was an off-the-record scam company to begin within, even when war was not. They have amazingly bad reviews from customers across their business. What do you think a scammer lending company will do when international law is gone? No surprises here.

    The only thing which concerns me, and also disappoints, is why Mintos worked with such shady lending to start with. And I will now check more closely where they allocate bigger sums of my money.

    1
  • Cyril Migeon

    Lucja (Mintos) It's also the responsability of mintos to work with such company. Also out of 15k I had in funds on mintos, 10k were placed by your algorithm on loans issued by this company, that was well rated because I was only adding 8+ rated company in the strategy.

    If Mintos is not able to recover the funds after a period of time, can we expect to have a partial repayments? What about being more clear on the timeline for that? What are the local consultants doing? What is the next step if they are not able to be more successful to advance the process of fund recovery? When will you assess that?

    There are so many answers needed and much more communications are expected, trying to bury those issue under the carpets and hope no one will ask questions is not ok.

    2
  • Jorge Rodriguez Carrascal

    My understanding is that Kviku does not want to cooperate. Anyone that has a bit of experience in debt restructuring or recoveries knows that is a really bad sign.

    I believe that Kviku took advantage from the current sanctions context to delay legal action from Mintos, so when the other Russian lending companies started to pay they decided to unilaterally postpone the payment three years into the future, using the legal excuse of the interest-free note. Perhaps Mintos is liable for not acting sooner against Kviku, but I don't think that would had changed much.

    As Stanley said a few posts above, Russia has become a country where a case from a foreign company against a Russian company will likely be very difficult to uphold in court, so I do not expect any positive results in the near future.

    However, the total exposition in Kviku loans is around €40M, so it is also about 12% of Mintos total active loan portfolio. That is surely impacting many users in the platform, so it is not only our investment that is at stake, but also Mintos reputation. From my side, I was planning to double my investment in Mintos, but stopped right away once Mintos moved Kviku loans to pending recovery status, and I will not add a cent until this situation is resolved. In addition, I am keeping part of my funds uninvested until I recover my own Kviku exposure. I am pretty sure that many users in Mintos feel frustrated by this situation like I do, and that is impacting Mintos business directly.

    Kviku has its own investment platform, Kviku Finance, that is timely paying interest and principal to their investors. I know this positively because a friend of mine has a little investment with them. That makes me think tthey are actually solvent and not all of their assets are in Russia (Kviku Finance operates through a holding based in Cyprus), so perhaps there is hope that eventually a significant recovery will occur.

    In the meantime, I would ask Mintos to move swiftly and act against Kviku as strongly as possible to force a repayment commitment, as they are obviously acting in bad faith.

    4
  • Cyril Migeon

    Same for me, with the auto investing strategy Kviku was representing 66% of my portfolio, will not add a cent before I see back at least a part of my investment.

    1
  • Stanley

    Cyril Migeon Now this is one of the most extremely underdiversified portfolios I've heard of here. Mintos makes it as hard as possible to achieve such portfolio unless you created custom strategy with extremely constrained conditions. This is also on you to be fair. You took hugely unreasonable risks here.

    0
  • Cyril Migeon

    I just disabled one parameter when there were no loans available, or very few. Also I think bad timing when I added new funds, probably that's when Kviku put a lot of loans on the market. Custom strategy was only taking buy back guarantee and supposedly solid lending company with 8+. But you're right, mistake is also on me.

    Edit: Stanley just to be clear, for now what is annoying me the most is the lack of communication of Mintos, how they treat their customers. You are taking money of people, you are due to inform them and not hide things under carpet. Before we pushed couple of weeks ago we basically had no news for 1 year because there were no successful developments. And now it is stil so opaque and no questions are answered, this is not ok.

    1
  • Stanley

    Cyril Migeon An unbalanced portfolio is certainly possible with a smaller volume portfolio as well. Let's hope they get back with a positive update soon.

    0
  • Japke

    @Cyrano Bilbao the platform Kviku Finance is actually not part of the loan originator Kviku on Mintos (ie the LLMC AirLoans entity). Their Kviku Finance platform operates outside of Russia and offers only loans from lenders that are outside of Russia. Or as how they describe it on their blog:

    "It is worth mentioning that Kviku Holding Ltd (operator of Kviku Finance and holding company for non-Russian Loan Originators) and LLMC AirLoans are separate entities, but with the same beneficial owners. Since LLMC AirLoans is not placing loans on the platform, it is not covered by the Group guarantee. The guarantee is applied only to the Loan Originators of the platform."

    https://kviku.finance/en/blog/view?id=1 

    0
  • Paweł Andrzej Lechowicz

    Lucia, as you said:
    "Kviku converted it to an interest free bond in RUB with a principal repayment at the end of 2026."
    I think it will be paid in a “C” type bank account. This is terrible.
    Is it possible to ask the Bank of Latvia for help and then the EU for talks with the CBR? It's over 40 million euro...

     

    Do you know something new?

    1
  • Paweł Andrzej Lechowicz

    Annija and Lucia

    are you kidding us?
    Where's your respect for investors? Your stupid "refer a friend" emails are useless. You should have been fired a long time ago.

    I am in Kviku but I hope ypu both will be financially responsible for lying about Revo.

    In this moment i will ask Latvijas Banka for inspection.

    2
  • Bruno

    Lucja (Mintos),

    What did the local consultants achieve in the last (4+) months regarding Kviku? It would be good to know.

    I've noticed that Kviku and all Russian ongoing cases (at least the ones I'm exposed to), were updated with "100% expected recovery" in the Overdue page.

    What did change to justify this update? 

    4
  • Bruno

    Lucja (Mintos) ?

    1
  • Paweł Andrzej Lechowicz

    Bruno I asked over two months ago and still have not received a reply.

    Lucja (Mintos) you are active in the other thread- we are waiting. 

    0
  • Jakub Tichoň

    So they edited it without any response.

    1
  • Bruno

    Ahahaha! Brilliant Lucja (Mintos)

    Then you question why we complain about your transparency/communication ...

    2
  • Lucja (Mintos)
    Community moderator

    Dear Investors,

    Thank you for your patience, and apologies for the delayed answer. 

    Regarding the initial estimate of 100%, it appears there was a mistake, and we believe the accurate range is between 50% and 75%, based on the progress we have made in recovering funds from Revo. The numbers were corrected yesterday. Regarding Kviku, since the case is still ongoing, we are unable to provide further details at this time to ensure that our recovery activities are not compromised. We’ll update you once we have news to share.

     

    -5
  • Bruno

    One more mistake.. 

    We are beta-testers of an amateur company, and we still pay for that.

    Lucja (Mintos), that was my initial question: What did the local consultants achieve in the last (4+) months regarding Kviku?

    This is bulls**t - for my ongoing cases you've recovered <0,2% of the Overdue amount, so just update the expected time of recovery to 2150.

    2
  • Christopher

    Naprawdę świetna robota. Tak więc Mintos stracił kolejne 22,5 miliona. € ich inwestorów ? Dla mnie oznacza to stratę 13 000 euro i proces sądowy.

    2
  • Japke

    I wanted to refer to an other platform that also was offering loans by Kviku Russia. Here they provided slightly more information on the steps that Kviku did and how this fits in with the framework(s) provided by the Russian Central Bank. Of course the contracts between Mintos and Kviku Russia will have different details that the ones on the other platform. However as long as Russia will see "us" as a creditor from an unfriendly state, there is likely not much that can be enforced legally in a court that can enforce the results within the borders of the Russian state. 

    https://www.iuvo-group.com/en/kviku-info-about-the-repayment-of-the-originators-debt/

    3
  • Jorge Rodriguez Carrascal

    Thank you, Japke; this is really helpful.

    It is really surprising (and not in a good way) that we need to go to another platform to get a better information about the status of our investments. This information was published by the other platform no less than almost four months ago, which shows a really poor communication management from Mintos and adds up to the incorrect information about the recovery percentage, which took Mintos almost one month to correct.

    I do not expect to transfer my risk to Mintos, but at least I do expect to have my interest defended in the best way possible and to get transparent, timely information from Mintos, and this is truly not happening.

    Totally disappointing :(

    2
  • Bruno

    And still, Mintos claim they don’t lack in transparency/communication.
    We had before weekly updates, which moved to monthly, and now it seems that we don’t get those even - today we should have received an update…

    Lucja (Mintos), I ask again: What did the local consultants achieve in the last (5+) months regarding Kviku?

    1
  • Japke

    As I also got a bit more interested in the legal background, it mainly comes down to Decree No. 81 and Decree No. 95 that the Russian President signed in 2022 (and there is some fine-tuning here and there in following decree's). It basically limits any large outflow of debt payments to "unfriendly states", and provides a framework for setting up a specific account with the Central Russian Bank to collect debt payments (in rubles and in case of debt in foreign currencies it needs to be exchanged according to the CBR dictated exchange rates - which contain quite some fantasy in reality). In the end, even if the actual creditor manages to own and operate that special account, the money is basically stuck within the borders of the Russian Federation (main approved usage so far is to pay taxes to the Russian Federation, or buy their government bonds).

    To do anything else, you need (to lobby heavily for) the approvals from both the CBR and the Ministry of Finance. And with Revo as evidence, even if you get an approval some how, there will be a maximum repayment stipulated to the creditor. 

    https://www.whitecase.com/insight-alert/special-economic-measures-have-been-adopted

    https://www.alrud.com/upload/%D0%A4%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BB%D1%8B/2022_newsletters/%D0%A1ounter-sanctions_summary_ALRUD_21.07.2022.pdf

    https://cbr.ru/about_br/dir/rsd_2022-03-08/

    3
  • Bruno

    Lucja (Mintos) ?

    2

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