Wowwo Q&A
This is a thread where you can ask your questions and write your Feedback about the Wowwo situation.
Dear Investors,
On December 17, 2021, we informed you that we made the decision to suspend loans originated by Wowwo from the Primary and Secondary Markets on Mintos until further notice.
The suspension is a cautionary measure to protect investor’s interests that is driven by macroeconomic changes which impact Turkish Lira exchange rate towards Euro. Given that Wowwo issues loans in Turkish Lira, but places them on Mintos in Euro, the company needs to pay the exchange rate difference from its own resources when forwarding borrower payments if Turkish Lira value drops.
As the Turkish Lira continued to depreciate rapidly, which could create a challenging environment for the company to meet its obligations towards investors on Mintos in a timely manner. We suspended Wowwo from the Primary and Secondary Markets.
Since then we shared also an update with you:
January 28, 2022
Dear Investors,
On Thursday, 27 January 2022, we had a meeting with Wowwo to further discuss possible solutions to the case of Wowwo's borrowers' repayments not being transferred to investors on Mintos. In the meantime, the funds due by Wowwo to Mintos and investors are moved to funds in recovery. The API communication system between Wowwo and Mintos was disconnected by the Turkish lending company due to currency risk that materialized for Wowwo as Lira continued to lose value against Euro.
In the most recent meeting, we exchanged information and proposals with the management of Wowwo, and we are planning to have a follow-up meeting next week when we will further discuss proposed options which will in the meantime be evaluated by both parties.
Mintos negotiations team is fully focused on coming to a resolution that will disrupt investors the least, as the case is currently classified “Stage 3”. You can find more about what this means in the article here:
https://www.mintos.com/blog/how-we-deal-with-loan-originator-issues-and-recovery-of-investor-funds/
As soon as we reach conclusions of value for investors and that can be publicly shared without disrupting our negotiation position, we won’t hesitate to update you immediately. In any case, we will share a more detailed follow-up after the upcoming meeting with Wowwo.
Please share your questions, thoughts and Feedback about Wowwo here.
-
Dear fellow investors,
Besides opening a formal complaint against Mintos in the platform (complaints@mintos.com), and writing to FCMC (Financial and Capital Market Commission from Latvia) to officially file a complaint against Mintos´ handling of Wowwo loans through fktk@fktk.lv, I also requested a mediation process to the Ombudsman of the Finance Association of Latvia, in this case by post and after paying a tax. I was very surprised that the Ombudsman told me that Mintos in fact never agreed to use the services of the Ombudsman and therefore he had to decline reviewing the case. Therefore, the Ombudsman mediation offer which is present in the Mintos webpage Mintos platform for Loans | Peer to Peer Lending, P2P Investing is not in fact active, accurate or true, which is really another shame.
Another option communicated by Mintos is to submit a complaint in accordance with the provisions of the Consumer Rights Protection Law of the Republic of Latvia to the Consumer Rights Protection Centre, located in Brivibas street 55, Riga, Latvia.
These are tools advertised by Mintos and can be used by investors in case their topics are not being handled appropriately, but of course it is an individual choice to make use of them.
0 -
That's exactly what I'm doing, Rob. If anyone asked me about p2p, I would have been positive about Mintos until October, neutral (would not mention them) until March, negative at the moment.
0 -
Dear Daniel Muniz Moreira,
thank you for bringing this up and giving us an opportunity to solve this misunderstanding by the Ombudsman. We reached out to the Ombudsman and clarified the case you brought up. Indeed, Mintos is a member of the Finance Latvia Association, which implies that our customers have access to the services provided by the institution of the Ombudsman. They will contact you directly to provide you with an opportunity to use the services you’re invited to use. If you need any further information about this, you’re welcome to contact our support, we will be happy to assist you.
0 -
Dear Gerardo Celso Guerreiro Mestre, it's in the final phase and will be submitted very soon, we will share information with investors in the Community when it happens, as well in the detailed overview in July's Funds in Recovery updates.
0 -
Dear Mintos team, it is good to read that petition to arbitration court has now been finalized. However it is disappointing to read that it still has not been sent to the Court so far, you state that you need some few days. One might get the impression that Mintos does not prioritize this topic internally in the right way. This is disappointing as clock starts to count once petition submitted and not earlier. So now please submit asap - and inform us once done as this is one milestone to reach. Thank you
1 -
Dear Oliver Dieffenbacher,
Preparation of the claim took a longer time than expected due to the simple reason that we worked to have all the documentation in place to have a strong position in the arbitration court. Preparation of the claim has been our priority and as we informed investors earlier at monthly recovery updates, we also are working on the claim together with a team of external lawyers. Saying this we have allocated additional resources to move the claim further as fast as possible.
0 -
Hi all!
Maybe this is a little beat pessimistic, but all signs is saying, - we will not get any money invested in Wowwo through Mintos. And this is a good time to relax and accept situation as it is.
One of management rules say, - "if you want softly refuse some request, just drag the issue out indefinitely"
Mr Shulte have no comments and does not participated in the last AMA session. So, Mintos understand, what they will not be able to deal with Wowwo. Or maybe they have another type of deal with Wowwo. So, this process will goes untill everybody will forget about it. In 2-3 years only few people will ask for the satus of this case.
According to our deal with Mintos, we take some risk. If we will try to go legal process, the court will say, - this is the investor's risk, so everything is normal. Investor protection (FCMC) does not protect for this type of risks. And again investors will lose little bit of money because of court.
In Latvia, the commission of Court of Arbitration when we talking about 18.5m euro case, is about 90k euro. So, the arbitration proceedings will be very very confidential, so nobody will knows is this submitted or not.
In this time, for new investors everything is hiden. According to statistics on the first page, everything is working very good! The money, we have in status "In recovery", in statistics for other investors is hiden. Everythin is good. This says a lot.
I wish to be more lucki with selection of the partner for investments next time!
Kind regards,
Alexander0 -
Dear Annija, thank you for your update. I fully agree that quality is key, so everyone certainly agrees that a slight longer preparation time is worth than submitting everything with poor quality too early. The thing I critizised and still critizise (see my question at the end of this post) is that I have the impression Mintos is unable to inform proactively investors in case delays occur. Why not just posting a short comment earlier such as 'It will take us a bit longer than previously communicated to submit the claim due to following reasons...' This would be benchmark investor communication ;-) And last question, as not answered by you: Has the claim now been submitted? Thank you again.
1 -
Honestly I don't understand why the recovery departement is not participating themselfs in this discussion. I can imagine customer support doesn't have all the detailed anwers and need to check each time with the back office, a very reactive process. Isn't this a crowdfunding platform, then work with the crowd.
0 -
Hi I can only agree with Alexander and say that it will probably take 2-3 years and nothing will happen other than saying nothing is known yet and we are continuing to work on it. Mintos has now made this even more opaque for new investors who want to know what the risk is. Statistics are presented here in a embellished way, so that one thinks Mintos will manage and collect the debts and claims. Due to the recent poor information disclosure, you are simply alone as an investor and cannot do anything. My personal loss is very high in the high 4-digit range. !!! Mintos doesn't care and Wowwo even more so. Bad partner bad invest. I hope I never fall for "bait offers" like this again in my life. Stay healthy Stefan0 -
Its like i stated back in January, i think there is a dog buried here. No LO would act this way unless it was in their favor, most likely due to contract oversight. Mintos knows this and is dragging it out for so long for the exact reason Aleksander above is explaining.
Reading the monthly updates its quite clear that they are not disclosing something to us and i think their only legal defense at this point is to claim wowwo was not acting in good faith.
I remember reading about this russian guy who received a loan contract from the bank, but before he signed it he altered it to his favor, signed and sent back. The bank didnt double check and thought it was the same that they sent out, so they signed it. Long story short the guy got a hefty sum for compensation because a contract is a contract and the bank wanted to avoid a public fiasco
I bet its something similar in this case
0 -
which this go back to my original point: at the beginning Wowwo offered to repay the loan in Turkish Lyra, but Mintos said no absolutely not. And I said, maybe this should be voted because I would have liked to have received at least 50% back rather than 0%.
0 -
Joining the thread. Yes, it's a risk, okay. However when choosing a platform (an investment partner), you would expect to it considers your interest and does something in your favor to resolve situation, provide clear updates, be as transparent as possible.
I echo observation posted previously:
- Nobody asked me whether I am okay to get repaid in Lyra. The decision is made "with a selected investor's vote" (how I understood it).
- Updates are very rare (comparing to weekly updates and visible progress on alternatives). And when they are published - it's super high-level.
- I see everything is being pushed back and full focus now on notes. Claims are somewhere in a non-active (by default tab).
So, considering all recent thoughts posted previously, and the fact that 'everything looks cool' for the new joining investors, maybe a better option that we can do is to share this story ... starting with influencers in video streaming services, etc... There are multiple P2P advising/review projects, they are accepting input from the users and updating their reviews, scores, etc...
Yes, it won't return the investment, but it's an extra data for whoever is doing their next due-dilligence.
0 -
@Gerado, posting here won’t help. Start reporting to P2P reviewing streamers and influencers.
P.S. I shared the story with one already. Hopefully their team will help in making it public and if not motivate Mintos to do something about it, at least to warn all new investors in notes to know what platform can potentially do to their investments.
0 -
Creditstar (AFAIK) has made a contract with Sulte to clear the pending payments by the end of 2022.
I am also expecting the recovery of Wowwo starting in the coming months, but certainly not next week.
When the legal proceedings are being taken, it takes time. It will not be a snap of a finger and then done (even if the case is trivial like Wowwo case).
I hope Mintos keeps the investors updated when will be the court hearing be so we can expect some sort of update from it within 14 days? Is it reasonable schedule?
0 -
Dear Investors,
Thank you for your feedback.
Please note that updates are published regularly on a monthly basis. You can find them here: https://www.mintos.com/en/funds-in-recovery-updates/.
If there is some news or updates, we inform investors accordingly about all steps.
There hasn't been a proposal to repay the debt in full in Lyra. At some moment, what was on the table was that payments would be repaid on the Lyra exchange rate when the loan was issued, hence suggesting significant loss to investors immediately. As well there was one more offer on March 3, 2022: In lengthy negotiations where Mintos has taken a strong position to reach an agreement that is satisfactory for Mintos investors, Wowwo management provided an unacceptable proposal that would give not more than a 25% recovery level over a 36-month-long recovery period.
As it is in our interest to protect investors, we decided to take the legal route in the case of Wowwo. Please find the regular updates here: https://www.mintos.com/en/funds-in-recovery-updates/.0 -
August 4 2022: As the court proceedings are confidential, we can't share any updates at this point. We expect to be able to share the next update in about 3 to 4 months.
Does it mean the court will make a decision within 4 months? I understand you cant share details, but im just curious about the expected time frame
2 -
Even 25% is ridiculos, Wowwo is still running his business and the holding with Telcom business is listed on Istanbul stock market. Target should be 100%, they should have the option to issue new shares to get the extra 20m EUR as cash...
1 -
I will donate the whole amount that will be recovered to the Mintos team. With the these money i will want from them to invest in some courses or training to improve themselves.... oh but sorry I forgot that we will receive nothing and mintos team will be the same shit as it is now....
2 -
As it is in our interest to protect investors, we decided to take the legal route in the case of Wowwo.
Investors were not asked again...
Marin Rumenov Yordanov posting here won’t help. Start reporting this thread to P2P reviewing communities, streamers and influencers.
1 -
Dear Investors,
Thank you for your comments and open discussion.
We fully agree with you that the proposal of Wowwo to repay such a small part of your funds was unacceptable. This is why we have rejected it without a doubt. As always, we tried first to solve the issue in the negotiation process which is usually quicker and more efficient than other ways. Unfortunately, this time it didn't lead to a satisfactory solution. We believe that Mintos investors deserve us trying to pursue a legal route that, we hope, will deliver better results for the investors compared to the proposal that was rejected.
It is true that there was no survey this time but we listen carefully to investors' feedback coming to us through different channels, including your comments here, and we took this decision not only based on our own assessment but also convinced that this is what investors will support and what is in their best interest.
Regarding the possible time frame, as mentioned in our last update, we expect to be able to share some news in the upcoming 3-4 months. There is nothing more we can say now.
Please, keep bearing with us. We appreciate your patience and understanding.
0 -
I recommend ( although obviously, we, here in this forum, are in the situation of searching for umbrella after the rain ) reading this review, especially the "is it safe" part just to be fully informed about mintos and its risks.
https://p2pempire.com/en/review/mintos
1 -
Hello Mintos,
Any updates on the Wowwo situation?0 -
Rodrigo Valle Teixeira thank you for your question. We announced in our last update on 6 October, that as the court proceedings are confidential, we cannot provide any updates at this time. We expect to be able to provide another update in approximately 2 months.
0 -
I wonder why is the law suit concealed from the investors... After all, it is the money of the investors that is being confiscated by Wowwo - we are the beneficiaries here.
It is my opinion that the investors should be able to monitor also the course of the law suit. And be able to ensure our case is presented in a proper manner.
0 -
I understand Mintos keeps this concealed. I think this information is highly confidential and i dont think it would be in our best interest if this will leak out to Wowwo. I think this strategy is to minimise risks. So therefor i think we should be patient for the coming ,2 months. I really hope some progress will be made!!
0 -
In the last update you mention that a settlement was proposed. Please share the details around the settlement proposed to Wowwo asap.
0 -
Hello Lucja (Mintos),
Two months have passed, can we have an update on the Wowwo court proceedings?
0 -
Dear Investors,
Thank you for your comments. As the court proceedings are confidential, we cannot share any details about the settlement. All future updates will be available in this section: https://www.mintos.com/en/funds-in-recovery-updates/0 -
i understand that but what i want to know is which proposal was made by Mintos that was refused by Wowwo that you mentioned in the last status?! That is not part of court and should not be confidential! thanks
0
Please sign in to leave a comment.
Comments
322 comments