Wowwo Q&A
This is a thread where you can ask your questions and write your Feedback about the Wowwo situation.
Dear Investors,
On December 17, 2021, we informed you that we made the decision to suspend loans originated by Wowwo from the Primary and Secondary Markets on Mintos until further notice.
The suspension is a cautionary measure to protect investor’s interests that is driven by macroeconomic changes which impact Turkish Lira exchange rate towards Euro. Given that Wowwo issues loans in Turkish Lira, but places them on Mintos in Euro, the company needs to pay the exchange rate difference from its own resources when forwarding borrower payments if Turkish Lira value drops.
As the Turkish Lira continued to depreciate rapidly, which could create a challenging environment for the company to meet its obligations towards investors on Mintos in a timely manner. We suspended Wowwo from the Primary and Secondary Markets.
Since then we shared also an update with you:
January 28, 2022
Dear Investors,
On Thursday, 27 January 2022, we had a meeting with Wowwo to further discuss possible solutions to the case of Wowwo's borrowers' repayments not being transferred to investors on Mintos. In the meantime, the funds due by Wowwo to Mintos and investors are moved to funds in recovery. The API communication system between Wowwo and Mintos was disconnected by the Turkish lending company due to currency risk that materialized for Wowwo as Lira continued to lose value against Euro.
In the most recent meeting, we exchanged information and proposals with the management of Wowwo, and we are planning to have a follow-up meeting next week when we will further discuss proposed options which will in the meantime be evaluated by both parties.
Mintos negotiations team is fully focused on coming to a resolution that will disrupt investors the least, as the case is currently classified “Stage 3”. You can find more about what this means in the article here:
https://www.mintos.com/blog/how-we-deal-with-loan-originator-issues-and-recovery-of-investor-funds/
As soon as we reach conclusions of value for investors and that can be publicly shared without disrupting our negotiation position, we won’t hesitate to update you immediately. In any case, we will share a more detailed follow-up after the upcoming meeting with Wowwo.
Please share your questions, thoughts and Feedback about Wowwo here.
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Same here, decided not to invest anymore until wowo is forced to pay its obligations0 -
Dear fellow investors,
In my opinion, it seems that this forum is an idea to keep the Wowwo case contained. We the investors talk to each other, and occasionally there is an incomplete response from Mintos randomly choosing an investor to respond to. There is lack of clear and objective information from Mintos.
The contract and agreement that I have is with Mintos, not Wowwo. Therefore, what I am doing is the following:
1) Instead of using the forum, I opened a formal complaint against Mintos using the email complaints@mintos.com. The base for my complaint is that I would like to know when a resolution of the Wowwo case will occur and I have not received this information. I received a complaint number, that can be referred to later as evidence that I opened a complaint, if needed for any future disputes. According to the Latvian law, Mintos has to respond in less than 15 business days.
2) If Mintos´ response to the complaint is not satisfactory, I will take the steps informed by Mintos in their homepage:
- If you’re a consumer, you can submit a complaint in accordance with the provisions of the Consumer Rights Protection Law of the Republic of Latvia to the Consumer Rights Protection Centre, located in Brivibas street 55, Riga, Latvia.
- If you believe Mintos violates applicable laws and regulations, you can refer your complaint to the FCMC by emailing fktk@fktk.lv or by submitting a complaint using the online forms available on the government service portal http://www.latvija.lv
- If your complaint is in line with the rules of the Ombudsman of the Finance Association of Latvia, you may submit a complaint by sending it to their office at Doma laukums 8A, Riga, LV-1050, Latvia.
3) Completely terminating all my investments in Mintos.
This is my personal approach for now and I am sharing it with you for information only. I am not responsible if you chose to use this approach or not and I do not intend to influence you to use it or not.
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@DANIEL MUNIZ MOREIRA,
do you know if there is a class action / plaintiff in Latvian law? So more disappointed investors could take joint action against Mintos. At the same time I feel pitty cause I used to love Mintos platform and I wish Mintos will deal with wowvo in the best effort for their clients.0 -
Mintos was my first option in loans investing (5x respect others). But with this problem, i wont put more money in the platform.
We assume the risk when an LO go bad, but no when go good... and go good with our money.
I will lose 25% of the mintos money with wowwo game (bad diversification). And with mintos rules that the money go back first to older loans... bye bye money
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Dear Mintos,
I reckon that having this forum totally open for our Wowwo colleagues to take an eye is not a smart alternative. I see a bunch of low cost options to engage your investors in a more confidential/restricted environment.
Annija/Lucija (Mintos), your approach here does not seem to be sufficient to respond professionaly tones of questions from a community that have invested EUR 20 million in a LO in your platform, in most cases following a Mintos' conservative strategy with over 10% of investment in a LO that was not hedged. This is a clear case of gross negligence and I am fully supportive to go against Mintos jointly with my fellow coinvestors in case Mintos does not respond appropriately to their responsibilities. I will open a formal claim against Mintos as some of you have advised earlier. I have started returning my money and will not invest any more here unless I see Mintos is in charge of their duties.
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This company has no credibility. It has lost its regular investors, and the new interests aim to attract new customers. They know full well that we will no longer trust them. They don't care about us. We have found out that this business is only profitable for them, not for individual investors. Just look at the response, "if you think this didn't work out, it's your fault for not knowing how to read the fine print of the contracts automatically generated in the conservative strategy."I have withdrawn all my money (with a secondary market that no longer works) but will also follow the steps specified by @Daniel Muniz.It's time to start investigating Mintos and, if appropriate, sue them. Their response is unacceptable. They are only buying time to save their business, not ours.1 -
Hello, to me it seems that perhaps a lot of investors feel that Mintos doesn't take action soon enough. However I'd like to add to the discussion that so far in my perception Mintos has been very persistent with their recovery efforts with the other failed LO's. Not everyone might agree on the soft course of action by Mintos but I wouldn't go as far as stating that our interest is not being represented and that these things usually take years to solve. We should also keep in mind that we are basically investing in junk bonds and that these are the kind of the high return high risk events to be expected.
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Dear colleagues, investors. I also think it is time for us to take the initiative into our own hands, because we have been receiving banal explanations from the mintos team for 3 months .... I think the more effective way is to unite and turn to a Latvian / European institution. The sooner we manage to unite, the more likely we are to have a successful end. I think mintos have a lot of big problems that they are hiding from their investors. I know that there are other investors who are of my opinion, so let's join forces. Anyone who agrees with me, write to me at marin.jordanov@gmail.com. So I would have the opportunity to gather everyone in a group to discuss how we can approach ...-1 -
Dear Investors,
please see the latest update at the beginning of the Thread under "Official Comment".
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"We assure you that we are evaluating all strategic approaches to the Wowwo case, including potentially pursuing legal action, to achieve the best possible results for investors on Mintos."
Potentially?
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I took from the last update something like:
Dear investor, there are dozens of agreements to be read in our "Conservative" Strategy. Why didn't you read them all? Besides that, it was Woowo who started not repaying the loans.. what can we do other than politely ask them to fulfil their obligations? We are doing our best. Next time don't be naive.
Just to be clear... this was just my interpretation. Not the real update from Mintos
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I do not understand what they are even negotiating.
If Wowwo is a good business and it runs smoothly and only refused to honor their obligations, there should be only one way to deal such cases - legal route.
The only issues that can be negotiated are the maturity of the restructured loan and new interest rate. Do you guys see other topics to negotiate here?
If they are not willing to honor their obligations, then the court should force them an ammortization schedule and interest rate.
If they go bankcrupt, that is the risk of the investors. We do not want to take risk of being scammed, but bankcruptcy is more understandable as long as there is no fraud attached to it (which also need to be investigated in such case).
Personally I hate paying my bills but I have to do it because if I do not do it, then I have consequences (my electricity goes offline etc).
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Dear Daniel Muniz Moreira, MIGUEL ANTONIO ABREU,
Thank you for your comment.
Please be aware that we are fully compliant with the FCMC regulations and requirements, and we try to resolve all arisen questions via our support before escalating matters further into an official complaint process or involving other authorities. Therefore, we urge Investors to first try Mintos support and reach out to us, so that we can review each case individually and provide replies to the specific questions raised.
We take every request to the utmost importance and prepare a reply within the timeframe that is stated and required by the law, both for Investors and FCMC.
Kind regards,
Mintos
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Hello,
What are you waiting for in Wowwo case? AFAIK, they have unilaterally decided not to repay, and now negotiating?
What issues are you even negotiating?
Company that is running should not get discounts on principal. Heck, their situation becomes worse as Lira drops.
Please enforce legal actions ASAP.
If they want to repay, then make a realistic payment plan with default interest. I oppose discounts on principal. I think the interest rate might be something that could be negotiated and maturity to some extent.
However, it is in their best interest to repay as soon as possible, I doubt Lira will gain strength over time as long as it is not tied to gold.
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I agree with Jarmo. From what you have shared with us, it seems like Wowwo is still financially healthy, simply decided to stop paying, and made an unacceptable proposal. This one proposal is the only result of your negotiations that you keep mentioning, which leads me to think no other proposals have even been made. If negotiations are not leading to any results because Wowwo simply won't pay, what other course of action is there than legal action?
If they do want to pay, why isn't there any update on a payment plan being in the works?0 -
I can summarize this issue in a very simple way: If Mintos takes proper legal action and manages to get Wowwo money back, I will keep investing with Mintos. If Wowwo money is a loss, I will leave and never come back.
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Where is the status update on Wowwo?
Please, do not post the same and/or identicial and/or similar with the older posts.
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@Gerardo, instead of spamming this Q&A, please spam somewhere else.
I'm asking for the April/2022 update.
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I have a significant amount of money invested in wowwo, thanks to the 'conservative' strategy. Wowwo has stopped paying now for several months. Until now I dont see any effort from Wowwo to start making payments. How many conversations will Mintos held with wowwo until they start legal procedures?
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Dear Investors,
please see our monthly funds in Recovery update here: https://www.mintos.com/en/funds-in-recovery-updates/, there you can also find the information about Wowwo.
Please note that this update comes once a month. If there will be some news or updates we will inform you accordingly about all steps.
There is also an "Ask Me Anything" Session planned, please join, and post your questions. More information can be found here: https://www.mintos.com/blog/ask-mintos-anything-about-funds-in-recovery-april-2022/
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So its just as we thought, they took 20 mil eur and we are not getting it back. Nice and easy.
Normally when someone steals they are doing it in a shady non-obvious way. But wowwo pretty much took it like stealing candy from a baby and are rubbing it in our faces. Because they know turkish law isnt worth anything and there is nothing we can do about it.
Perhaps your next LO will be somalian pirates or boko haram you can incorporate in your "conservative strategy"
Absolutely abysmal!
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@... thank you for the update. I wish there was a more positive result to the negotiations, but as we already feared, Wowwo simply took the money and ran. I'll repeat what I've said before: sue Wowwo for all they are worth. Recover what you can. Let Wowwo go bankrupt if that's what it takes. Right now, I am considering the money I invested into Wowwo as lost. Now it's about showing other LOs that stealing money will cost them their business, so that no other LO will try and do the same thing.
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Dear Annija, dear Mintos representatives,
I want to make a proposal, which is a strong recommendation for you: that Mintos schedules a virtual meeting with the investors affected by the Wowwo loans, to provide more information and discuss options and next steps. As part of the meeting, I propose the following points:
1) How can the investors help Mintos? Shall we write to the Turkey Bourse or other authority? Shall we contact Wowwo and open a formal complaint? Is there anything you believe that could help? Except of course giving you more time, which is not an option.
2) Timeline for legal action action Wowwo. Mintos must provide clear next steps including clarity by when legal action will start, information about Legal company chosen and what is the percentage of success expected, as well as duration of the action.
3) Mintos skin in the game. How much will the Mintos be able to compensate the investors for our loss, right away? Or will Mintos prefer to leave the loss entirely to the investors?
4) Bad debt secondary market. It would be very helpful and wise from Mintos to allow the investors to trade Wowwo bad debt. Investors needing liquidity can accept a haircut and go away, investors willing to search for profits could buy the loans with a discount. Mintos should provide disclaimers as needed.
Please reply to the proposal in 10 working days, by April 25th . I am also interested to know if the investors colleagues agree and would like to propose additional topics to the Meeting.
Yours sincerely,
Daniel Moreira
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Hi Daniel, that seems like a very sensible proposal for a meeting and talking points. I agree
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Agree with meeting Daniel Muniz Moreira
Mintos Marketing MintosInvester @... just do something please, take part of the money in liras whatever. Dont let it fall asleep. On the other side Turkish are just like that. They will pay finally. It s a kind of market game, part of their lifestyle, just dancing around and avoiding rules of the game.
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Dear all,
FYI the potential loss for Wowwo - due to their lack of proper financial hedging is equal to some 20 - 25% of their equity. The loss must be carried by Wowwo a 100%. No buts and no excuses.
I have done business in Turkey before and know from experience that they will always try to negotiate a better deal despite there is nothing to negotiate.
Pay in full or close the business.
You have to stand firm and take the necessary legal actions now.
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Yes - now get a qualified legal team ASAP, and start pushing with threat like bankcruptcy + police investigation or pay in full.
Only strong approach at this point.
When they see you are serious they might actually start the repayments.
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Dear Investors,
Thank you all for your comments.
If it did not resonate clearly with our previous update, be informed that Mintos is entering the legal route to resolve this case. Please remember that it takes time to choose the most suitable solution. We also won't be able to disclose it publicly, as it would put Wowwo in a privileged position and would give them time to prepare for our actions. But we stay committed to sharing with our investors all details we can, without putting at risk their best interest. We thank you for your understanding and for bearing with us.
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Daniel Muniz Moreira, thank you for your proposal.
Some of the points you mentioned, we will try to address in our next AMA session dedicated to funds in recovery on 14 April 2022. Feel more than welcome to join it: https://www.mintos.com/blog/ask-mintos-anything-about-funds-in-recovery-april-2022/
We will take into consideration your suggestions and will think of the best possible ways to engage our investors in this case. Please, keep checking our communication channels - we won't hesitate to inform you about any news.
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You should go with full force against Wowwo. In addition you should compensate the investors in the event we are not fully reimbursed by Wowwo. You have been negligent by not disclosing the fact that there was a currency risk. I’m saying this despite i’m also a Mintos’s shareholder - i want responsible, transparent business that assumes its responsibilities even those than come from negligent practices.
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