E-cash situation and pending payments
hey there,
I have pending payments from E cash for more than 2 weeks, however E cash does not show up in the weekly PDF of pending payments that MINTOS publishes.
Does anybody know why?
What is the latest update on E cash?
I understand it has been suspended
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Hi Mintos,
thanks a lot and yes, I am aware of this but in my opinion you should then move it to Recovery.
If you instead decide to leave it in Pending Payments, you should then report it in the weekly PDF report because they are late for more than 2 weeks for sure.
Thanks for your understanding and keep up the great work!
massimo3 -
The process kinda seems to be complete, but the wording on the update seems a bit confusing if not conflicting.
"E-Cash estimates that the repayments and debt collection process with its borrowers is completed, which means the lending company can finalize its wind-down and transfer the negotiated amount of € 410 864 to investors on Mintos. Mintos has received these funds and will be distributing them next week."
Firstly it says E-cash estimates that the payments and debt collection is completed, it's not confirmed to be completed but only estimated to be completed. Does this mean there might be more funds still recovered from this, or why is it said to be only estimated to be complete?
Also the next part is a bit in future tense, estimated to be completed -> can complete wind down. The only thing that is not open or in future tense is the part about mintos receiving money, which I assume means that the money that has been received, € 410 864, is final and regardless of any other actions there will never be more. Is that the correct interpretation?
Meaning that if there would be more money collected from the dept collection process, those funds would never come to mintos?
Practically meaning that after the distribution of these funds happens to mintos investors, the rest of the funds are immediately marked as permanently lost and removed from the accounts.
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Permanently deleted userHi Massimo Gregorio Muzzi E-Cash was suspended due to unclarities of its wind-down and the pending amounts due to investors. As a suspended lending company, please see details and monthly updates on it here, https://www.mintos.com/en/funds-in-recovery-updates/
At the moment, we are in the negotiation process to identify the best solution for this case. Thank you for your patience as we work it out.
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The updates on this are really bad. The monthly update now was just that there is no update. Other thing that makes the situation quite bad in my opinion is that there was one update, the funds where changed from pending to in recovery. But no information on why. If the status of the funds changes, there's a reason for this but nothing was disclosed.
So without any given reason, the assumption can obviously only be that the reason for the change is because the negotiations are not going well.
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it's even worse because in the latest recovery report they already give less than 25% recovery chances on E-Cash ... any explanation from the MINTOS team, please?
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Oh, actually missed that one. That's bad. The loans were in majority healthy, at least the ones which were pending payment for myself. Which means E Cash had received the money, to like 80-90% of the loans, and now if they're actually only paying out less than 25%, someone else is skimming the money that was already there...
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Hi Massimo Gregorio Muzzi, this was covered in our Ask Me Anything Session - 'Currently, the company’s management is of an opinion that all proceeds from the loan portfolio (financed by Mintos investors) should be spread pro-rata between the Mintos investors and the e-cash investors. That is why the expected recovery is around 25%'. You can watch the full video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZoRtehE6sI&t=2325s, the part about E-cash is starting from 29:51
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Hi Onni, thank you for your feedback!
The funds went from pending to in recovery because E-cash has been suspended. Funds in recovery are also pending payments. There are two categories of pending payments 1) funds in recovery 2) regular pending payments. Suspended and defaulted Lending Companies` pending payments fall under funds in recovery.
You can see information and updates about E-Cash and other lending companies here https://www.mintos.com/en/funds-in-recovery-updates/
As well a few weeks ago we had Ask Me Anything Session, where also the situation with E-Cash was explained in detail, you can watch the video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZoRtehE6sI&t=2325s, the part about E-cash is starting from 29:51
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Hi,
Some more feedback.
The funds didn't go to recovery when E cash was suspended, the funds were in pending payments for quite some time after e cash was suspended. When the funds moved from pending to recovery, there was no update. If it would've been as you Annija said, it would've been clear.
I just noticed and saw the AMA today and it explained the situation very well, but again the problem is in communication. This info that was given in AMA, was given only out in that video. Nothing mentioned in the monthly recovery update. When just reading the recovery updates, there's absolutely no status update on the situation.
After seeing the AMA video, I'm fairly satisfied with the info as of now, but it was very difficult to get this information.
So, please make the communications more clear and collect all relevant info together in the appropriate channels.
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Hi Annija,
thanks for your comment however has Onni pointed out, the funds went into Pending Payments first.
They stayed there for one month and did not go into the weekly late Pending Payments report. I wrote to Mintos about this issue and then Mintos put them into Recovery.
I appreciate the explanation in the video but it should be reported in the other channels as well. I still found strange that the recovery hope goes immediately to less than 25% though... let's keep pushing !
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Do we have an estimate of the recovery percentage if mintos proposed approach is taken? That investors are paid first with the specific funds?
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Hello Onni, there is not yet estimate percentage of the recovery that can be shared with investors. We continue the negotiation process with the lending company to solve the current situation and will provide more information as soon as it will be possible.
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How are the negotiations proceeding, just looking what is the expectation when there will be updates and a schedule for the funds?
I assume everyone, not just mintos investors, are looking for closure in these discussions.
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Hi mw,
The buyback remains with the Lending Company for indirect structures. That is not unusual for the debt buyback being performed by the debtor itself which in essence is a repayment of the debt that is owed by the debtor. Mintos role as the intermediary does not change if the structure used is the indirect one.0 -
Hi Onni,
Please see the latest information here https://www.mintos.com/en/funds-in-recovery-updates/: The negotiations continue with an aim for immediate partial debt repayments in previously expected recovery volumes, or more. Mintos and E-Cash are in the process of agreeing on a legal framework for the resolution of the debt on behalf of the lending company.
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heh, previously expected volumes or more. Previous expectation was less than 25%, so now the expectation is maybe more than less than 25%.
I assume once money comes in, it'll be allocated based on loan maturity?
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Hi Onni, We look to solve the recovery process as soon as possible and share with investors, along with the details on how the distribution of the repayments is done. If you are an investor with investment in E-Cash issued loans, you will also receive this information in your email with which you registered at Mintos.
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Hello MINTOS,
we have received your email about E CASH solution more than 3 weeks ago, the email said that the funds would have been received within one week.
Did you receive them? If yes, when will you transfer them to our accounts?
Finally, all the amounts that will not be recovered, will they go into the "Default" bucket?thanks!
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Hello Massimo Gregorio Muzzi,
All the received funds have been distributed to investors. The remaining E-Cash funds on your account will soon move to bad debt. If you would like to have specified information on your case, please, send an email to support@mintos.com, and we will be able to provide you with more detailed information.0 -
How can I check if I received the money? The full outstanding amount still shows as "In Recovery" in my Overview.
Please also confirm how all E-Cash money was distributed, i.e. how much was left (% in relation to debt), how much did Mintos investors get, and how much did other parties get?
Cheers
Michael
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On TUE, Lucja (Mintos) said
All the received funds have been distributed to investors.
On FRI, I received an email from Mintos showing me my "Funds recovered in August 2021"
This brings me back to my previous post :
How can I check if I received the money? The full outstanding amount still shows as "In Recovery" in my Overview.
Please also confirm how all E-Cash money was distributed, i.e. how much was left (% in relation to debt), how much did Mintos investors get, and how much did other parties get?
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Hi mw, all the received funds are distributed. The remaining funds will be soon moved to bad debt.
We amortize funds as follows. At first, loans that have underlying borrower repayments are covered and after, loans that fall into the buyback category (comes with a buyback obligation and have reached 60 days late period) or have been re-bought by the lending company from the investor, are repaid.
You can send us an email to support@mintos.com and we will check your case specifically.
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Hi Annlja - I still don't understand the process. Mintos keeps saying, the "funds are distributed" but nothing is showing up in my account. Also, more generally, I'm still not clear how any remaining assets from E-Cash have been allocated. And I don't mean just the portion received by Mintos but all assets.
I don't understand what you mean by: "loans that have underlying borrower repayments are covered".
BTW, what happened to my post asking question about the indirect structure? I can see your reply but my post is not visible.
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Hi mw, The funds are distributed among investors based on the information received from E-Cash. The information received is which loans had underlying borrower payments. As there wasn't an expected recovery of 100% and just 35% of the funds could be covered, E-Cash provided a list of loans that had underlying borrower payments (loans that were paid by borrowers). As we honor the waterfall clause when amortizing funds, so first loans with underlying borrower payments and after that, rebuy categorized loans or loans that fall in the buyback category. As there wasn't a 100% recovery, not all of the investors received funds, unfortunately. The funds that are now still shown under 'in recovery' (E-Cash funds) on the investor account, can be considered as lost funds, and those won't be recovered. This is a part from the blog: https://www.mintos.com/blog/mintos-recovers-funds-from-e-cash/
To maximize recovered amounts for investors, Mintos evaluated multiple recovery options. Following a thorough evaluation of the company’s accounts, agreements, and respective recovery prospects, we decided in favor of an out-of-court settlement with E-Cash as the best option, taking into account the very short duration of E-Cash issued loans, servicing costs of the portfolio, and the time required of different recovery options. With these considerations in mind, Mintos acted in the best interest of the investors to recover as much as possible, as fast as possible. After an extensive negotiation process, the initial expected recovery rate, as first shared with investors on 11 May 2021 during the quarterly review on funds in recovery, was less than 25%, with the company being in stage 4 (read more about the stages and details of the recovery processes here https://www.mintos.com/en/funds-in-recovery-updates/). This recovery rate was increased to 35%.
About indirect structure - good question. Are you sure you did not delete the comment? If some answers are missing, you can post your question again.
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It has been said already many times and long time ago that remaining funds will be moved to bad debt "soon" or even "this week".
These weeks have passed and the funds are still shown in recovery. Is there still some recovery ongoing or why has it not been moved to bad debt?
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Hi Onni, the recovery of E-cash funds has been finalized and the recovered 35% has been distributed. Unfortunately, the process of moving the unrecovered funds from pending payments to bad debt is still ongoing. We are doing everything in our power to finalize this process.
Thank you for your patience and our apologies for the inconvenience caused.
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"doing everything in our power"
Who else is actually involved here? What is stopping you from just changing this?
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Hi Onni, stay assured that once the technical setup is fully in place, unrecovered funds from E-cash will be displayed as bad debt. Nevertheless, for their accounting purposes, each investor can consider them like that already now.
If you need any assistance with that from our side, feel free to reach us at support@mintos.com. We will be happy to help.
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